Episode 54 Transcript
[00:00:00] Welcome to be about Being Better podcast, where we empower you to make evidence-based, sustainable and transformative changes for your health, leading to a more vibrant and fulfilling life. I'm your host, Abbie Stasior a non-diet registered dietician, certified intuitive eating counselor, and master's graduate from Columbia University.
I believe that we can't make lasting or meaningful change single-handedly. So I'm so happy that you're here so that together you can see that a diet free, sustainable, healthy lifestyle is possible, and you can leverage that to live a better life. And remember my disclaimer, this podcast is meant to give you general information and is not meant to substitute or replace medical advice.
A diagnosis or service treatment. Hello. Hello y'all. I am so excited to dive into this episode. So the guest that we have today, her name is Sharona Schnall, and her Instagram handle is your Jewish nutritionist. And I've been following her account for a while and I am just obsessed with it. And she has really hilarious content and she. Is always just talking about, um, how the nutritious components of nutrition and aren't, aren't the, aren't the only aspects of our health that we need to focus on.
So she is really helping her audience expand their definition of what health is. And I'm like, I feel like I do a lot of that too. Like it's not just nutrition and exercise and, um, she incorporates faith in culture. Into her content and her healthy lifestyle and she gives that to her audience. And
she also helps to combat harmful nutrition and health information online. So she is writing a lot of wrongs, doing a lot of myth busting, which at be about being better. We appreciate because we'd be out here doing that too. Uh, I'm really excited. She is a future registered dietician. She is a graduate student in human nutrition at California State University, north Rich.
And uh, she's a dietetic intern right now, so, ugh. I know what it's like to be a dietetic intern and it is not fun, not great, but you learn a lot. Um, so she's about to be a registered dietician like me as well, and I'm really excited for y'all to hear this episode. We. just cover so much about faith and health and how those intersect.
And I learned a lot about the Jewish culture and keeping kosher. And it, it really is an amazing episode. So thank you for being here and listening, and I'll see you in the episode.
Abbie: Hello hello and welcome back to the Be About Being Better podcast. We got Sharon Schnall in the house. How's it going, girl?
Sharona: It's good. Thank you so much for having me.
Abbie: Yes. It'smy pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it, and I'm super excited for our audience to hear perspective on things and, your knowledge.Ithink it's, it's so great that you're here and, um, I’ve been really looking forward to this interview.
Sharona: Me too.
Abbie: Yay. All right,so for us to dive in, we're going to going to get to know you real quick. Diving into the deep end. I always start with this question, butWhatis something hard that you've been through in your life that ultimately has made you better, like now that you're on the other side of it, hindsight is 2020. What has, what is something that you've been through that now ultimately you're like, oh,okay. I'm actually grateful that I went through that experience because it's made me better.
Sharona: You know, that's, uh, really great that you asked that question because, um, in Judaism there's an idea that everything's for the good. Like even if you can't see it right now, like later there are blessings in disguise or you might never know. So I'm like, That's like such a good way to start it off.Um, so even when something bad happens, we should try to think, okay, this is good too. Um, and have that positive mindset. So something I've been through is, so I was in a Jewish private school for preschool and first to sixth grade, and then I had to switch schools to a public school. For seventh and eighth grade because of financial concerns.'cause it'slike thousands of dollars and I was already the third kid. And, um, other things that made it hard. And so I was very nervous about that'cause it's like a totally different environment being in like just girls like religious, private institution to like a normal publicschool.Um, and then, It happened again in ninth and 10th grade.I was in a Jewish private school again, and then I got switched again to public school in 11th and12th grade. So the back and forth was very difficult for me. Um, but then like I did get to experience something unique that most people haven't been to a private religious school and public school and gone to see what both is like So when I think about it, I think of like hand Montana, like, oh, the best of both worlds.
Abbie: Yeah, absolutely. And It's so funny that you say that too, because my sister, um,is also the youngest out of my three siblings. and The same situation happened with her, like with my parents divorce. yeah.
Sharona: Yeah. My parents divorced too. Yeah.
Abbie: Yeah, so you feel it like, you know, my dad literally sat both of us down and was like, one of you is going to, uh, public school, so figureitout.And, you know, I offered myself this tribute, but then through conversations with my sister,it made sense. LikeI was going into 11th grade. Mybrother was a senior, so he was like, we're not taking him out for senioryear.So he was out of the question. But for me it was like,Um, you know, I could finish up my last two years, like 11th and 12th grade at the same place,but I was like,that. it also could be a good time to switch to,but my sister was gonnabe new and she was gonna go into junior high for seventh grade, and all of the schools in our area were coming together to the public like everyone was new. Um, so
Sharona: Doesn't feel as bad when everyone's new. Yeah,
Abbie: right,exactly. So After Conversations, like, she was feeling, Imean, obviously nervous and similar feelings as you, but she,um, Ended up, you know, it was the, it was the better choice out of the two of us, and she ended up being really grateful for it as well. Imean, she ended up going to Syracuse for college and realizing like, oh wow. Iactually thrive and really enjoy and prefer a larger class environment.Like I would've never thrived at Syracuse In such a huge university for college. Like I needed a little, I Went To Dickinson College in Pennsylvania. Super small liberal arts. Like one of my classes only had three people init. Like I, I need that small personalized attention where she thrives in a bigger environment,So. All right. Awesome. I really appreciate you. You know, you going through that and diving us in a little bit about you and, um, I dunno if everyone in my audience knows this, I mean, they know that I've had a significantRelationship where, you know, I dated my college boyfriend for five years, but I don't know if a lot of people know that, that he was JewishAnd so we dated for five years. Um, I loved his family, loved his mom. Um, but I definitely got to.
Sharona: Mm-hmm.
Abbie: Pickup through their family dinners and their events and their culture, that it was very common to prioritize meal times and have family meal times and just to make those very full, full of food. full of love. And you know, in theJewish culture, food is definitely a sign of love.SoI would love to hearlike your experiences with different Jewish mothers and how we can navigate some intuitive eating principles, respecting our fullness without, you know,offending.some Jewish mamas thatwanna make sure that we're eating good.
Sharona: Yeah, that's a very good question and like a very tough thing.Especially, I'm half Persian and so it's a Persian thing to wanna feed people a lot and a Jewish thing. as, so when you have a Persian Jewish mothers, it's even worse.So I've been through that a lot and it's like, in their mind they're thinking you're starving. And in your mind, you're like, I'm full, but you keep putting more food on my plate and pushing me. And then you get mad if Idon't eat it. but then it's like, we don't wanna be bloated And stuffed past fullness and everything. You know, that's an issue. Um, andI've like talked too. Psychologist about it, and she was saying it might be from like generational trauma of like, you know,the, when you think back of like mo their mothers and their mothers and whatever, maybe they were like poor back then.likeI know there's a. stereotype that like Jewish people always have money or something, but like it was a. Times that don't also, and it could be they're thinking like, oh, like let's fill up just in case, like that restriction mindset, like all things in Judaism reminds me of nutrition. Um, as part of why like I made Jewish nutritionist.'cause it's like like how you talk about all the 'time on your page when you have that restriction mindset, you're like, oh, I don't know when I'm gonna see this food again. It Makes you wanna overdo It Um, and so. Partly what could help is like, 'cause sometimes I get mad and I'd be like, why do you keep like trying to force me to eat when I told you I don't want it?And so it's like, it's good to try to think about, okay, they have good intentions and it could be part of that like learned behavior over the years because of that
Abbie: Yeah. That scarcity. Yeah, that scarcity mindset. Yeah, absolutely.
Sharona: And so, um, something could do is, to say like, no, thank you. Like with a smile. And don't hesitate at all. 'cause if people see or like thinking about it, then they're gonna like push even more and like just Be consistent. Be like, oh no thank you. And like maybe instead of like, Maybe they want you to eat their food and compliment it and you. could still compliment it And be like oh, this looks really good.Or, wow, like, I appreciate all your hard work. Or like, you could explain how like, I'm not hungry anymore. I don't wanna feel sick, or something like that. 'cause like they don't wanna make youf eel sick, obviously. Um, or maybe just like oh, give me a chance to catch up because like, You know how it takes time for the brain to know you're full. Like it's even more difficult when like my grandma also has dementia, so like I'll tell her and then she just forgot that I said that and she'll
Abbie: Oh No, not the dementia. Oh no.
Sharona: and she was pushing even before that, and now it's worse.
Abbie: Oh no. Yeah, but I like what you said too, is like compliment their cooking, Say Thank you, like show gratitude because They want, they wanna be appreciated. And especially ,moms love mothering.They love mom and on everybody.And if they are making the effort to prepare this whole meal, they might not be getting a lot of gratitude and depreciation.So if you can be the one to show that at the table. Like, oh my gosh, this is so delicious.Like,good for now,but, um, but thank you. OrI wonder if you could say like, oh,I'm like still working.Like, I think, you know, it.
Sharona: Oh, still working on it. Yeah, I think that's a good idea too. Or like eating slower because it's like whenever they see your plate is, Starting to look empty.They wanna keep filling it up. They should keep being full. So you just take longer and chew it longer and things, or like just leave the extra food on there, like don't force. So if they see there's food on there, then , they'll like say less and. Another thing is like, this reminds me of that, we'll, we could touch on later too with kosher, that like sometimes people offer me food that's not kosher and I don't want it because I keep that.And if I like hesitate, I'm like, like part of me hesitates. 'cause I feel bad. They're like, oh they're gonna get 'offended or something. But then I'm like, oh no, I don't think so. But then they keep pushing. It like makes me uncomfortable when I don't want to eat it. So it's like similar with the like the lessons. We learn from like nutrition and talking with each other can apply to so many things, andI guess it's just it. Acknowledging where they're coming from. Likewe were saying, just being like, oh, I know you want me to be full or like, enjoy this too, but like, I'm okay. I'm doing, I'm feeling good, or something like, that, maybe.
Abbie: Mm. Right. Like, I've had enough, like I'm really satisfied. Like, that was, that was delicious. I feel good. And I like what you said too, is being confident when you say it, because if you're like hesitating, they might interpret that as, oh, did they not like the cooking or, They nervous or what's going on.So if you say it with confidence, that can go along way.
Sharona: they could think, oh, maybe you're just being nice and shy and Like you want to eat it. You just wanna be told like, no, eat, eat, eat, Like maybe they're just
Abbie: Right. Right. But yeah, like if you're actually full and you're good, don't be nervous about it just.Be confident and say it. So, yeah. Could you dive into a little bit more about keeping kosher?what are, You know, the rules for that,and also what are some misconceptions or common myths around keeping kosher.
Sharona: Yeah. Thank you for asking that. So, um, one of the main things is you don't eat meat and milk together.So, for example, can't have a cheeseburger, like not just milk, like dairy products. And meat is not just beef. It would also include,uh, like chicken And Turkey. But something like um, fish wouldn't be counted as meat. That'd be a separate category. That's like parv. That's neither meat nor dairy. Parv isn't the same thing as vegan.It's similar, but like a egg could be parv, neither meat or dairy, but egg is not vegan,So It's not exactly the same. Um, but like, yeah, you won't find any milk or animal products in something that's parv. The purpose of Parv is like, let's say I'm eating a meat dinner of chicken and I want some kind of like chocolate dessert after. So it, uh, makes sure that, oh, there's no, it's not milk chocolate. There's no milk at all added. it's like completely dark. and Another part of it is that you wanna look for kosher symbols.So like, there's certain animals you can and cannot eat. like, for example, uh, we don't eat shellfish, like no lobster and crabs and shrimp and squid and things like that. Like our version of sushi is like very different. Um, uh, you don't have pig. You, um, don't have catfish. You don't have birds of prey, and part of it is because you are whatYou eat so you don't wanna have that kind of personality. Um, and then.I feel like there's so many things to say about kosher. I'm like, wait, did I say this? Did
Abbie: I would assume that most people don't know. And you know, there was, in my college cafeteria, they had the kosher line and like a specific designated section. and sometimes I would go in the line, because I'm like,oh, that looks good. ButI had no idea what it meant to keep kosher.So anyway, I'm,I, I learned a little bit about this for my RD exam. Um, And You'll be prepped for that section for sure. You'll be checking all those boxes because it'll give you a list of meals. Like one of them will be like a cheeseburger with fries or you know, something with shellfish and like,whichone, you know,if you are Jewish,like which one could you eat?Um, and then, you know, they have other ones for like different religions as well. So you have to
Sharona: yeah.
Abbie: through like, oh, what, what's for this religion?
Sharona: So like, that's a good point you made about the cafeteria line. Like sometimes they'll have a kosher section and it's all like packaged and taped up and things.'cause they have to make sure not to get anything else in there. And 'cause they couldn't make in that kitchen, they shipped it from somewhere else because you need a kosher kitchen for kosher. Just like someone, if they have like a severe gluten intolerance with celiac disease, um, like they can't even have something that.the Pot and pan that was used to cook. glu in is now used to cook their food. Even though there's no gluten in their food,it still transfers a little
Abbie: cross contact.
Sharona: Yeah. The cross-contamination, like you with kosher too, has to be certain pans and things are just for kosher. You have certain pans and microwaves that are just for meat and are just for dairy and it transfers through heat.Um, and another thing is to look for kosher symbols. Uh, 'cause for example, like the. Meat is slaughtered a different way uh, like they do a blessing on it, but they also check in the lungs if there's diseases they can't use a gun. they can't take an animal that was already dying and sick. Um, like They do like more humane practices, like they do it on, um, a certain nerve and with a really sharp knife that they die basically instantly.They're like, we don't want the animal to suffer and feel, Uh, pain. Uh, they put also some more spaces of like where the cattles are raised, they're not squished as much. Um, and different things like that is part of it. Also what's interesting is a lot of products, even though they'll say vegetarian or vegan on it, uh, they could still have animal things added to it, if it's under a certain percentage.Like, you know, like how trans fats aren't supposed to be legal,but like it could still be if it's under1% or 0.5 or something like that. So, uh, they don't have to report everything. So it's the same that like there'll be vegan products like juice or dry fruit or something like that that like they'll use some insects for coloring a little bit of the insect juice, but they're not gonna write it on the ingredients label. And an insect is still, an animal so that's like, that's not vegan. Or like, there's some, Um, Companies like Nutrisystem, they have some, kind of vegetarian weight loss things and Oh, yeah. It says all vegetarian, but like, they use like animal little products things for some of it, if you like, look it up every article about it.But these
Abbie: y'all. If you needed another reason to not do Nutrisystem, other than diets don't work they're lying on their labels and they're, you're eating insects.
Sharona: Yeah. Like I wouldn't want those things either.And thenI found that out too,and I'm like, oh my God. And this happens with, um, a lot of products. And so this with kosher, it's like a stricter supervision and like they hire extra people to look at things, stuff separate to make sure it is what it says it is. Um, And there's also different levels, like for the dairy products, there's Halel, which is like a Jewish person did it.And then there's regular which, um, which like a lot of products are like the OU D. So if someone's not sure if something's kosher and they wanna know, you could just Google it. And it's really easy and there's a lot of different symbols to look for. The OU And the OK are some of the most popular and a lot of products are actually kosher that people eat that, don't even realize that don't keep kosher. Like Cheez-its are Kosher, Chex Mix is kosher. Um, like a bunch of like products you see everywhere. Um, and yeah, those are some of the main things I feel like there's
Abbie: Yeah,
Sharona: but yeah,
Abbie: Are there any other, like myths or misconceptions you wanna talk about or did you feel like you hit on those?
Sharona: Oh yeah. So a lot of people think that kosher is healthier and they're like, oh, I wanna do the kosher diet to like, lose weight or just like tobe healthy or this or that. And likeIt's not for that. It's very similar and it's more like for spiritual reasons. And yeah, that's a big myth. Uh, another thing is some people say, Like you have to have a separation. Like not just, you can't, like some people think, oh, if I'm Eating, it's separate. Like I'm having a hamburger and I take a bite of that and then I drink a glass of milk and then this, I'm not eating in the same bite. It's okay. It's separate. No, but it's still part of the same meal. So you can't have like a, or like, you can't be like, I'm Gava DairyDessert, but like uh, Meat dinner, like it has to have a separation that, and it's also based on the customs of where you're from. Some people will wait three hours after eating meat until you have dairy.Some will say one hour, some will say six hours. And then for dairy, some will wait 30 minutes or an hour after. 'cause meat takes longer to digest. So that's why there's more separation between. So yeah, that, that might be a myth too, that's like, oh, you only have to wait an hour or this. And it's like, no, it depends on your custom, um, or that people think.This is kosher, but for some,uh, restaurants or something. But some places they'll write kosher even though they're not actually, it's just kosher style, which means like, oh, this is Jewish cultural food, or we just done me and milk together.
Abbie: Yeah. So there definitely are a lot.Of rules to keep and Um, I, living in our diet culture world where people are so,like we already have a lot of pressure and rules certainly outside of a religious context.Do you find that, you know, people in the Jewish community are even more at risk for disordered eating and eating disorders because of so many food rules?
Sharona: Wow, that's a good point. Like, I never thought about that, but I don't think so because like,It's like there's still a lot of different options with kosher and then, I don't know, I grew up with it,so I'm just used to it, so it's normal to me. Um, sometimes people develop it later on, butlike, I've never heard about that, about it making more disordered eating. But there still are other issues that are more common in theJewish communities with nutrition that I feel like there's. culture to just like constantly eat and to overdo it and to have like multiple different. Courses.And then it's like even when you're like so stuffed, like, I'm about to explode. I feel like I need surgery. And there's so many different things they're like, oh,let's have more.
Abbie: Yeah. it sounds like they could use some intuitive eating, respecting our fullness, for sure.
Sharona: And it could seem like you're being rude that, oh, you don't wanna try this or this, and there's like a million different things. Um, or likeSomething else that's a concern with the Jewish community is that like, we have to take care of our health is what God wants. So why are we like keeping so strict to certain religious practices, but then a lot of Religious people are like not eating nutrient dense food and overeating. and not excising and other things.
Abbie: Yeah.absolutely. And we had,uh, one of our clients come on and she observes Ramadan and she came to talk about how to approach that month of fasting With A non-diet mindset.And she was really fortunate to bein one of our coaching programs at the time of Ramadan. I'm, so I could be working with her on that.And then we've recapped her experience on the podcast. 'cause there were certain things that she had to keep, but what kept her going? I mean, definitely listen to the episode 'cause there's more nuance to what I'm about to say. We'll link it in the show notes. But she kept her eye on the spiritual aspect. And she kept, you know, the spiritual practices or, you know, for us it would be scripture and you know, the word that keeping those at the front of mind so that even though, yes, there are certain rules to keep from a religious aspect,like not letting diet culture come in and infiltrate that, but keep it on the why.Why are we doing this? What is,how is this getting us, you know, closer toGodor closer spiritually more connected, transforming us in a spiritual way? Like if you keep your eye on that, then you know you have the right motivations to doing it for the right reasons. 'causeI also see it in the Christiancommunity.Like my church does, you know, prayer and fasting and people will be starting a new diet and they're like during the prayer and fasting,or they'll do a three week fast and they're not doing it for the right reasons.They're doing it to lose weight and doing it at a vanity.and that is counter.counterproductive, very disordered. So when we keep our eye on the spiritual aspect and the why, that can be helpful to mitigate someone's risk, but still, you know observing their religious beliefs.
Sharona: Yeah. And I think what could help is if you have like a community supporting you. Like if you're gonna do a religious fast being your church or temple, like around other people and doing your prayers and learning and like remembering, like to help you see, oh,that's why I am doing it.
Abbie: Yeah, Absolutely, you definitely need community.I talk about that so much on the podcast, that there is such power in community, but you need that for accountability and you need close people in your community that would hold you accountable and like lovingly correct you and point those things out to you.People that you have trust with that would be able to, youknow, see those things and all that out. And To you, so that you are keeping your eye on the spiritual aspect versus, making it, Very disordered. . Well Septemberis a really big month. For Jewish holidays and so that's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on was to,you know, help our audience members that observe those holidays.How can we best optimize those? So what are some of the common cultural dishes and how would you make those more nutrient dense?
Sharona: Thank you for asking. So for Rosh Hashanah, which is like the Jewish New Year coming up, common thing is apples and honey. And someone might be like, oh honey, there's sugar, bad da, da,da.Okay. But like, we don't wanna think bad and good as you teach, Um, I. andlike, I feel like that's very common in Jewish culture or other places too.Especially when people learn, oh, you study nutrition and they start getting defensive, like, oh, I don't usually eat these bad foods, or this or that around me.And I'm like, Like chill. I'm not judging you.Um, but so we could think like, okay, approach it with the mindset, like how you say there's no moral. area with food, like it's just food and some are more nutrient dense, some are less nutrient dense, and we just wanna do what makes us feel good. Like if we overdo it and have a bunch of apples and honey because we feel like, oh, I don't let myself have this ever, then we might feel sick and like we're not gonna be satisfied where it might be extra hungry.'cause we're like, that's not balanced. Where it's like the protein and fat and things. Um, so. Maybe if someone's gonna do that, like you still fill up on like your vegetables and your protein, likeeat Like um, your mealsand like. Enjoy it and savor it. And like with mindful eating, like you're gonna eat slowly, you're gonna like appreciate it Um, I noticed sometimes if I eat food, like well closing my eyes a bit,it like tastes even better. And I, because I guess one of your senses are off, the others are stronger. Like that's something I like. Um, and so yeah. And then another thing is like sweet noodle kugel, which is a lot of sugar and things like that, but,You could do again, just like pairing it with the protein and just,I would say like have one or two pieces, um, just not be having like going back and forth like in a rush.Like I know sometimes I've overdo it. Done iton treats. 'cause maybe part of me felt guilty like oh, I shouldn't be eating this. Let me just like have as much as I can now. I won't have it later. Or like, yeah, there's a scarcity mindset you're talking about, but like, I think a lot of how we could get through the holidays is the mindset and preparation that like don't say, oh, I have to save my calories all day And then because I'm going to eat these things at night and then we're like starving and like have way too much, um, and it's hard to get through the day.So just like. Eating regularly and balanced meals, like drinking enough water, um, Another thing is like how we have a lot of fruit for some holidays like Rashana and the pomegranates dates and other things.I'd say like, uh, maybelike not having too much of the dates 'cause those are like. Really intense for me at least, I like, I have like acouple and I'm like that's satisfying enough.And I know somepeople like, to put peanut butter in their dates. I've seen that as a thing. I guess that could giveit some more protein and fat because, or like
Abbie: absolutely.
Sharona: Fried eggplant is another, uh, common thing. I guess if we want to make it more nutritious, we could, um, bake it. and then go filter fish is another common thing, which is like different fishes together. It's already like pretty healthy. It's an appetizer and it's recommended like in Jewish culture from like Ancient scholar not to have fish and meat on the same plate and have fish first as the appetizer, which is interesting. Um, another thing is lasagna is a common.Jewish food I see serve, it's like a bunch of cheese and pasta.We don't add any meat to it, which a bunch of people find strange that like I've never had it with that. And I would say make it more balanced. Like add a bunch of broccoli and vegetables to it like that could bump up the fiber and likealso taste really good. Maybe add some like black beans to it, I love black beans with cheese.Um, yeah,These are some examples. There's chala bread.You could have whole wheat if you wanted it. Um, or balanced. Or sometimes when I've done that, it was too intense for my family. So at least half whole wheat or like if we want less sugar, 'cause we're. Already having desserts and you could do more of a savory challah.That's more with like rosemary and garlic and herbs.That tastes really good,
Abbie: yum. That sounds so good. What would you put onMatza? Because obviously matza can be very plain tasting,but you can almost make like as if you were gonna do like an avocado toast, like you could have the Matza beer base. Yeah. like what? What would you recommend putting onMatza?
Sharona: Yeah, Matza is great for Passover and I still eat Masa sometimes during the year, like yesterday and I put avocado on. It is good,like you're saying. Um, some Turkey could be good on it. For protein, it tastes really good.The combo actually, or avocado and egg.Um,or like Maza pizza we like to do too. And it's good. And I guess like also putting some veggies on it could be good. And, um,You can't have like pepperoni on it 'cause that's meat. I guess could do a soy meat though if you still wanted something similar to that and some more protein. Mm-hmm.
Abbie: chicken on there or no?
Sharona: Yeah, you could put chicken, like if it's not with the cheese, like just chicken and matza, but not like on the pizza. Yeah.
Abbie: Okay. Okay, cool. All right. We got a lot of ideas there for sure.
Sharona: Or sometimes people have Matza bra, which is kind of like a omelet in a way. Yeah.
Abbie: Oh yeah. Isn't that when you like mix the matza into like the egg scramble?almost?
Sharona: Yeah. Kind of. You break it up, you soak it and it's like,it's kind of similar. It's like a matza ler, matza, French toast or something like that. But like during Passover, it really is a struggle. Like there's a lot of limitations, especially for like there's Ashkenazi and there's Safari are like two different types of like, Jewish people from like the region you're from. And so when you're an Ashkenazi, like you can't have rice during Passover, you can't have corn, you can't have um, beans and bread and a bunch of different things. It's not just no bread. So that could be a struggle that feels like all there is to eat is like potatoes and sugar and things. But What you could still do is like even fish on the MO I think could be a good idea with avocado and other things like have a lot of vegetables and protein and things, and it's definitely a struggle,but like as you said,We think about it as for the spiritual reasons, and we're like, oh, we're not gonna do this forever. And could think, okay, even if we felt like we were bad quotation marks which like we need to not shame ourselves anymore.Like I know in the past I felt like that, I was like, oh, I had so much grape juice during Passover. 'cause you have like, the four cups of wine. I'm like, oh, this is so much sugar. And now I feel like I need to restrict myself or I feel guilty. But then that just leads to unhealthy behaviors. So I feel like just enjoy.Savor the moment, understand why, and, and then move on from it. Right,
Abbie: right, exactly. and, the Bible even talks about like feasting andlike having these elaborate meals. And taking time to celebrate. And you know,that's definitely in there and you know, both Old Testament and New Testament And so we shouldn't feel guilty around.Holidays and we should really take the time to celebrate and be present with the people that we're with. And like you said, taking time during the meal to slow down and savor each bite. Andum, our episode from the week before talked about howto honor our hunger and respect our fullness.So if y'all miss that episode, definitely go and listen to that 'cause you'll gain a lot of tips from there that will help you when you enter these seasons.
Sharona: Yeah, And being happy at certain points is actually like a commandment or a mitzvah from the Torah. So you're so right, like we should enjoy and celebrate. like I know there's a D culture thing that's like,oh, food is only for fuel. It's not for enjoyment, but like, no, that's not true, and that's not what should be.Andlike we should enjoy our life and include all cultural dishes too.
Abbie: Yes, I completely agree. There are other needs that you can meet other purposes for food, not just for fuel, can meet an emotional, mental and emotional need, a social connection celebration. Absolutely Love that. Now, what are some scriptures that,you hold onto and you keep focused on,either during these holidays to keep you focused on, uh, you know, doing the food rules for the right reasons, or just in general for living a healthy lifestyle.
Sharona: Yeah, so Maim was an ancient Jewish philosopher and scholar. He'd, uh, warn against extremes and even he advocated for rest and routine and so that's a really good thing Yeah. To think
Abbie: Yes. That's so non-diet. Yes. I love that. We need To rest, we need to avoid extreme diet culture. wants you, to do the extreme thing. It's like, No.Yes, yes. Okay. That's So good. Sorry. Keep going.
Sharona: Oh yeah, no, that's okay. And um, it's just like if someone grew up not that religious or a lot of people that are Jewish, they don't even realize they were Jewish when they grew up and then later they figure it out, and so they wanna start becoming more religious and it's recommended I. Don't just take on everything at once. Like if they wanna start keeping kosher, like you're saying, there's a lot of rules. It can be complicated. Don't Just like, oh, I'm gonna be all totally kosher from now on. Like small steps like you always talk about. I go, okay, how about I'm first not gonna have meat and milk? Together. Like, okay, this isn't a kosher certified meat or kosher certified milk. My kitchen isn't kosher yet. And, um,whatever, different things, but like, at least that's the first thing. knock on me and milk together. And another thing could be like, okay, maybe I'm gonna includelike, uh, one new kosher food into my diet this week. And focus on,like you say, what you can eat instead of what you can't. Um, So that's another thing to think about with the extremes and the all or nothing and like that's how you stay with it in the sustainable long-term. If you take everything all on at once, you gonna get burned out and overwhelmed and then like just be back at the beginning or worse. So like that relates to like, their nutrition like so much we see that
Abbie: . And I think it's also important to remember that we have a loving God. I think so many people think that God, is this like domineering, controlling,Um, like someone that's condemning us and when we do something wrong, we're gonna get,you know,shot with a, a lightning bolt, we're gonna be struck down.It's like, no, we have such a loving God that shows us grace. And mercy and compassion and Um, if you have thoughts in your head like, oh,I shouldn't have done that, or you're feeling a lot of shame. And actually in my, my small group, we were talking about the difference between guilt and shame recently, and sometimes guilt, It can be very convicting.Like, oh,maybe we have done, you know, something that, maybe, you know, it wasn't in alignment with our values or whatever it was,but shame is different. It's like not just that you did something wrong,but you are wrong, and like that is really something to take note of. It's like, that is not from God. Like God does notShame any of us if we have those thoughts like that, that is notfromGod and that's not the voice of God,
Sharona: . Yeah, because I learned something similar to that like if you hear voices are just putting yourself down and it's not make you productive, they say that's the Yates horror,it's how you say in Hebrew, which means evil inclination, and it's the thing that whenever. You are leveling up and then you get like voices are like putting You down Like oh, you're not good enough.You can't do that, this or that. Like, that's the evil inclination. Like that's its job that like, it tries to put you down and like you have to know Like, when there's negative voices, um, about yourself and it's just like hard criticisms like that.Yeah. That's not God.And that's not from you. That's from the thing that. wants to stop you. Um, so yeah, that's really important what you. were saying. And another thing. Like, you're like, oh, God's not all like wanting to hurt you and things like God's like a loving parent and he loves you so much. They say you should think he made the world just for you.Meaning that like you're not just like, oh, one outta billions of people,you're insignificant. No. Like he cares about every single person and like you're born here for a reason and like you're here 'cause you have a purpose.And so you could. Think about that, to try to love yourself and be like, youknow, God believes in me and he's soamazing.So I should believe in myself.
Abbie: Hmm. Yes. Oh, that's so good. I Was just reading in Isaiah 43 where he is, you know, like he, who created you, he who formed you He talks about Israel and JacobandOh, like just, Just so good.Yes. Icompletely agree. are there any like specific scriptures that come to mind for you that you also cling to?
Sharona: There's so many. I guess like one of them is love your fellow as yourself, um, which is Leviticus 1918, and they say you need to love yourself first to properly love others. And so I think about that 'cause like I really love other people and I wanna help people just like they say, oh, you have to put on your oxygen mask first.And like, that's still something I struggle with, but I've been doing better. Like, but if I just like keep giving, giving,giving, like I won't have anything left to give. Just like that giving tree story. likethere's so many similarities you could see in things even that like aren't Jewish text. Um, and yeah, that's really important.Another one, it's from Rabbi Lauren ECL Birkin, he said, when we are depleted of our own resources, we're incapable of providing for those around us. So I really wanna care and help others. I need to make sure that I'm Okay.
Abbie: Yes. Yeah, I talk about this so much on the podcasttoo, so I love that you're confirming. 'causeI think it's really important for people listening to the podcast. Uh, to, yes, hear me say things, but hear other people say things in, in their own way.So y'all, this goes back to what I Talk about all the time, that the Mrs comes first, m r s me first responsibility, second serving others third.And so if you really care about your roles and responsibilities,the people that you're serving, you will put yourself first. Take care of yourself, fill up your pictures you actually have something to pour into other people.
Sharona: Another thing from the Babylonian tall mood, or Ravi 65 A,it says the night was created for no other purpose than sleep.Like really? Like what else do we do at night? And we see like our body makes us sleep. Like you're gonna eventually fall asleep even if you try not to. So that reminds us that God cares,like we need to rest. Like there's a hustle culture that's like, oh, I should feel guilty for resting and relaxing. I don't know.We shouldn't because like We were meant to, like there's proof.
Abbie: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. We need, we need to rest. We need that. And that's just another cue that our bodies are so smart and we can trust. The signals and cues coming from our body. Because we, we get that cue to rest and we know that we're supposed to, and that's innate for us.But diet culture wants to tell us that for. You know, every cue that our body's sending us for. That'shunger or fullness, That we need to suppress that or do something different or rely on something external to control our body signals when like, no, really it's all internal. We can trust our body's innate wisdom.
Sharona: It feels like so simple, but at the same time a radical idea. Like what? I could trust my body because like in this culture, it feels like, no, I can't trust myself. I need to be told what to do.
Abbie: Yes,exactly girl. What I'm telling everybody every day it, yes. Yeah. It's such a simple thing, but it's radical all at the same time.I love how you said that. Is there anything else as far as, you know,with your culture, witheating, keeping kosher? Like anything else that you feel like our audience should know or anything else you wanna talk about?
Sharona: Yeah, Um, we could go over some more like scriptures that I really like and like what we think of them is that, like in the Tud Bly, it says if you take on too much, you have taken on nothing. So it goes on more to what we say that like you're just trying to do everything at once. You're not really gonna do anything successfully. So like, I think this relates to how you always talking about like one step at a time. one habit at a time.
Abbie: absolutely. And like master that, take that step and take it fully. So That you can take the next step and you'll actually get somewhere. A lot farther and be more successful and have better competence in that area versus trying to be scattered, Have your attention, resources, energy, time, all the things scattered between a million different things you don't get as far. So, yeah, I love that.
Sharona: Another thing is it's a great mitzvah to be happy, rabbi Nachman says, and like that's the thing in the Torah. But then at the same time, like. Partly That could cause feelings of guilds and shame that you think like, oh, if you're not feeling happy now you're like, oh, now I sitting or something. So I think it's good. Like justlike with anything and like with diet, culture,nutrition, all these, everything could always be misinterpreted. So it's just like, like, eating healthy food, like,diet culture doesn't own that. Like we can eat healthy food without being on a diet. And so also that it's okay that like we don't need to beextreme that yes, it's a mitzvah, be happy, but also our feelings are valid if we're upset about something and we can feel our feelings And like sometimes you have to like, read more into it. Like there's other parts of the Torah that do explain how like, oh, there are times to be more sad, like when you're mourning or other things, but just like you don't wanna dwell in it too much. And So yeah, I just see a lot of themes with like the all or nothing mindset.
Abbie: Yeah, absolutely. And I think leaning more into your spirituality and your faith, reading the textcanhelpIf you are experiencing disordered eating habits or you're recovering from an eating disorder, reading the text and kind of analyzing and seeing how.This either goes against diet, culture like I just think it can help you heal from all of that and give you a different perspective, um, and kind of teacher you like,no, this is how eating is supposed to be. This is how mealtimes are supposed to be experienced and how diet culture and how the world has Shifted things around to change our perspective.Like that's not right, and that wasn't the original intention. So I think diving more into your spirituality can actually help. Heal a lot of those things and undo what the world has kind of brainwashed us with.
Sharona: I know there's so much brainwashing.Sometimes I wish I could, I Wish I could wash it the other way, like just take out my brain and give it a deep cleaning. Get rid of all the nasty brainwashing of the other ones
Abbie: Literally, literally, ugh. So good. Which I also feel like like reading scripture and like diving into spirituality, I feel like that has been very
Sharona: Yeah.
Abbie: for me and like rewiring some of my thoughts.So, Hey there, There's power to it for sure.
Sharona: Oh, another thing you reminded me of, is howlike meditation, you know, is so good for our health. We always talk about it, and for me, like when I try it, I get more anxiety, but if I do, prayer it really helps. So it's like that could be a different form of meditation. And another thing to keep in mind is like, ask God for help.Ask professionals for help. Like you're not alone.
Abbie: Mm Yes, absolutely. And even if you feel alone, like you're never lonely because God is always with you and God is always near. And a quote that I heard recently,was like, if God Feels far, he's not the one who moved.
Sharona: Oh, that's good. That's a
Abbie: I was like, that was really convicting for me.I was like, I have to share that.
Sharona: I feel like we could go on and on and like there's so much to say about these topics and like it's so important.
Abbie: Yeah, absolutely. There's so much crossover between diet culture and our health and spiritual text.And um, so I really appreciate you.Sharing your perspective and the scriptures that have stuck out to you. I feel likeGod has really called me recently to speak biblical truth into the health industry and I'm like, God, I don't really know what that means. I don't,I don't know what that looks like, but it's interesting 'cause everytime I say that to someone, they have the same reaction as you. It's like, I see that for you. And I'm like, wow, that's really confirming. So like praise God for that. Um. So thank you.Yeah,I'm really interested in it and I just,it's so organic. I'm like, I'm just seeing these connections and I know that that's not on accident,So, Awesome. Okay, well, we always close out with our guests with the same question, butwhat's something you're gonna do this week to make your week better?
Sharona: Something I really be wanting to do more is more positive affirmations and relating it to the reason why, like the purpose, which is like motivating, or it's like, for example, like I'm working on passing my driving exam and so instead just being like, oh, I.pass it or like I'mpassingit. Something to do is like, I'm learning to drive with God's help and be, and I can do it because I'm capable and this is gonna like help me accomplish my goals and get places I need to go.Like something like that, like to be more mindful of like how I'm talking to myself and to,and when I'm doing prayers to think of why is this important to me and my capabilities.
Abbie: Yeah. Yeah. Oh,I love that so much. We need more positive affirmations in our life for sure. We have such a negativity bias.
Sharona: There's a Jewish book called Positivity Bias that talks about that. Yeah.exactly.
Abbie: awesome. Yeah, everyone go read that. If you have a negativity bias, which we all do, you probably need a positivity bias. Love it. Awesome. Well, Sharona,thank you so much of hopping on the Be About Being Better podcast today.I appreciate your time and, and your wisdom.
Sharona: Thank you so much for having me. This was really fun.
Abbie: Yay.
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