[00:00:00] Oh, hey y'all. I am so excited for this episode. This is a really, really, really special episode for me because we got Sadie Sutton coming to the show. , Sadie is the host of the She Persisted podcast and. I was, uh, out of all my podcast interviews, being on Sadie's show was my first podcast interview ever back in like 2019 or 2020, like this is going way back.
So Sadie and I have known each other for a really long time, and I was on her show talking about healthy habits, and she's coming on the Be About Being Better podcast today to talk about mental health and specifically managing anxiety and overwhelm.
And she's gonna give us some tangible tips on what we can do in the moment, like when we're in the thick of it and maybe we're, we're feeling a panic attack coming on. We have a lot of anxiety. What do we do in the moment? To help this. And then also what can we do to change our lifestyle, to switch things around, what are some tangible tips, um, that she has to help mitigate us from getting to that point.
And I really think that we need both of these things cuz we don't know sometimes when, , an anxiety attack is gonna come on or whatever it is. So we need those in the moment, supports, but we also need support. To make sure that, we're decreasing our risk from getting to that point where the cup is just boiling over.
So I'm really excited for y'all to hear this episode because so many people need this. So I'm gonna thank y'all in advance for sharing this episode with three people because more people need this message. I was in the car driving to the Kentucky Derby for my birthday this last week, and thank you all so much for the birthday wishes.
I just turned 28. , I'm so grateful for y'all, y'all made me feel so, , just loved and I am just so grateful for this be about being better community and I was driving to, to the Kentucky Derby before my birthday, going to the horse races and in the car on the way there, I had the most.
Crippling anxiety, and I'm not n normally someone I like, I get anxious, but I don't have like diagnosed anxiety. But I have a lot of people in my life that, you know, really suffer from chronic anxiety. And , I have so much empathy for people that really struggle with this because, you know, I, I was only feeling that for half a day.
And you know, I couldn't get any work done. I could barely eat. I was like, I could feel almost a panic attack coming on all day, and it was really hard to get myself to relax and it took a really long time. I feel like I'm still kind of coming down from it, so like I can't even imagine. Or I just got a small glimpse as to what it looks like to suffer from anxiety chronically.
Um, Yeah, so a lot of people are suffering with this and a lot of people need this message. . So thank you so much for sharing this episode, um, and helping me spread the word.
I, I love y'all so much. Thank you. And Sadie just holds a special place. My heart. She, also went through the Be About Being Better Academy. Uh, so she's an Academy graduate, so she's been loving Bee about being better for a really long time.
Uh, when I was on her show talking about the Academy, she's like, I love this. Like, I think I wanna join this. Uh, so she did, she went through the academy. She was very successful. She. Is a student now at Upen and she runs her successful podcast. She runs a team, she's the co-founder of Waveform Social that helps people with their podcast production and all things social media.
She truly is a fabulous, c e o in that way, and podcaster and managing, um, like the workload of being an Ivy League student. Like she's just absolutely incredible and I have so much respect for her and. Going through the academy, we taught her, okay, how, when you have a busy schedule, how do you weave healthy habits in?
How do you take care of yourself so that you can take care of other people? So she's truly fabulous and she shout out to Sadie in the Waveform social team. She helps us produce the podcast.
So they, they are fabulous. So if y'all have your own podcast or you're thinking about starting it or need social media support, we will put waveform, socials, information, savings, contact info, all in the show notes so that, um, y'all can reach out to them and, , get some support because they are just the most professional company.
They get it, they understand the trends, and they have just been such a gift. To me in this show. So y'all, I'm just excited to dive into this episode and for y'all to hear Sadie's wisdom. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing this episode, and I'll see you in the interview.
Hello. Hello y'all. Welcome back to the Be About BeingBetter podcast. I am joined with Sadie Sutton, the one and only y'all just heard in the intro How phenomenal Sadie is, all the things that she's doing, all the lives that she's and she's really changed my life and she is part of what makes this podcast possible. So I'm super excited to have her on the podcast. And um, and just so you know, that our podcast episode on, on her show is linked up in the show notes for y'all. Listen to, uh, so I'm so excited. Sadie, thank you for being here today.
Sadie: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to do this very full circle moment because you came on my podcast forever ago.
Abbie: it was so long ago, and that was my first podcast interview ever.
Sadie: didn't sound like it. It was a great interview.
Abbie: thank you. I appreciate that. And then you went through the academy like we really have And now you're working for be about being better. so really have come full circle and I'm just, I'm obsessed. I love it. Yay. Well,today we're here to talk about everything in your wheelhouse, all things mental health because you've seen it all and you're so great at teaching other people how to break down. Like when we talk about depression, anxiety, like needing to be inpatient somewhere or different types of therapy, Like these are complex issues, really hard things to talk about. And there's so much nuance and good at addressing the nuance of all of these things. So I definitely wanted to bring you on cuz these are things that, that, we're all struggling with to, to some extent. Or maybe we know someone that's struggling with it. So, um, to kick us off, our be about being better guest question Uh, we ask everybody this. So, um, I wanna start this off with you. What is one thing that you've been through that now looking back, can see like going through that really changed me for the better and made me What has that experience for you?
Sadie: So many things. I mean, the, the standout one is just my whole mental health journey, like struggling so much with depression and anxiety and suicidality and all of those emotions. It was very much an experience where when I was in it, there was no thought of like, oh, this will make me stronger. Like I'll be better on the other side, like. There were none of that. I, I was just like, I don't understand why I'm experiencing this. I shouldn't be experiencing this. A lot of thoughts. If this isn't fair, this isn't okay. All of those kinds of things. So in the moment, it was never like a, I'll get to the light at the end of the tunnel. It was like, I'm in the tunnel and the tunnel is the only thing to exist and it's never gonna change. But after recovering, we'll get into that
whole process and story. It really was a moment where it was like, okay, if I can help one person struggling, if I can have one person not experience what I did to the severity that I did, it feels worth it. And there was really that like intense feeling of purpose and meaning behind that whole experience. But it wasn't until I was fully on the other side of things fully recovered and began talking about my experience that I was able to be like, okay. I can understand that I went through this really painful, terrible, overwhelming experience, but there could be some, some meaning and something that comes out of it. And it doesn't have to be all terrible. But I think especially with mental health challenges, when you are going through that, that challenge stage, there's not always that like, well, it'll get better, things will improve, um, like you maybe would in another area of life. So I definitely wanna emphasize like that insight was not there for a very long time and it took fully recovering to get to that point where I could have some appreciation for, for why I needed to struggle to then be able to support others.
Abbie: Yeah, absolutely. So I appreciate you addressing that as well. Like we always say hindsight's always 2020, and sometimes it can be so far out from that you're going through. Yeah. So, do you mind speaking a little bit to that time? You know, as much as you're comfortable with, you know, your, your story to recovery.
Sadie: Yeah, I mean, I'm an open book. My parents like listened to my podcast at the beginning outta fear. They're like, what's going on the internet? Like, Are we sure about this one? Um, but yeah, no, I'm really an open book with, with anything and everything that I went through. Um, but I started struggling with my mental health in middle school, which I think there really is that universal experience of being a teen is really hard. And there's a lot of things that contribute to that. I mean, from a biological perspective, your brain just doesn't operate the same way that it will when you're an adult. You are experiencing your emotions more intensely. You don't have this like runway of life experiences to be like, this is the blip in the radar. I'll get to the other side. It very much is all consuming. It's only what's in the moment. You don't have this Bank of life experiences to pull from and to be like, well, I'll get back to that place. Because when you're a teen, It really does feel like you're experiencing everything for the first time, whether it's the way you're thinking about things, is constantly developing and evolving the way you're experiencing your emotions, your relationships, how you see yourself in the world. So I feel like as an adult, you have these different things in your toolbox that you can pull from, whether it's like, well, I used to feel this way, so I'll work to get back to there. Or, I used to have these healthy relationships, or I used to have this mindset as a teen. It's developing as you're struggling. And so You can't work backwards almost. And so there's this, this component of being in a completely different position brain wise, there's this life experience component. Um, there's all of these things that add to this universal experience where everyone's like, it was really, really hard being a teen. There's this lack of autonomy that's really interesting. So many things going on there. And so for me, when I look back and can kind of have some awareness of why I struggled so much, but again, in the moment it was just a lot of pain. It was a lot of overwhelm and confusion. There was no awareness of like, this is why I'm struggling. This is why things are so difficult for me, and this is what I'm experiencing. I was like, this is just how my brain works. My life is terrible. My life sucks, and this will never change. Like that was truly how I viewed my mental health. And so the belief systems that I can now pinpoint are first that I didn't believe that I was , worthy of love. And we know that humans are wired for connection. Connection is absolutely essential to our functioning From an evolutionary perspective, from an emotional perspective, and so to operate through the world. Under the belief that you're not good enough and that , I didn't believe that I was worthy of love from them or that I would be good enough, which made it really difficult to talk to them and express that I wasn't okay.
Because it felt like my mental health would make me less lovable. And so that was a whole other component that was adding to the, to the challenge of what I was experiencing and like maintaining the struggle because I wasn't talking to anyone. And then the third belief system at play, especially as I began to get more involved in therapy and treatment, was that I wasn't capable of recovery.
And part of that was entrenched in my self-esteem, which was such a low that I just had so much self-hatred and really like despise. I don't know if that's the right form, like term of that word, but I really just despised every single aspect of my life. And myself. And so I didn't believe that I was worthy of recovering.
Like I thought I was such like a, a bad person. I was like, I deserve to feel this terrible. And then because as a teen, again, your emotions and thoughts and beliefs are evolving alongside you. It felt like I'd never experienced anything different because these emotions and habits and routines and behaviors had slowly shifted over time that I just was like, oh my gosh, I've never experienced anything different.
All I know is that every single day I'm waking up severely depressed, and I can't remember is time when things weren't like this. And so those three, four things together meant that I was in a really tough spot mentally, and I was severely depressed.
I was severely anxious. I started isolating for my relationships. I was in codependent relationships, and a lot of the ways that my mental health presented was just looking for validation that something wasn't okay, and that the pain that I was experiencing was extreme and was painful and was out of the norm. I wanted my parents to know that I wanted. Friends or romantic partners to be aware of that.
I wanted someone to be like, I can see that you're not okay. And I can't imagine how challenging that is. That was really all that I wanted. And so as I struggled with my mental health, things presented in a lot of different ways, whether it was like my sleep schedule or my eating behaviors, my relationship with my family, more conflict, self-harm, suicidal ideation, more anxiety, all of these different things. And they, that really did just continue to evolve as I continued to go through treatment. But those belief systems were really what we're at the, the center of the struggle. And so I tried everything that you can imagine locally without. Seeking a more intensive option. so outpatient therapy and family therapy, D B T C, B T, group therapy, individual therapy, like anything and everything that you can imagine, intensive outpatient, hospital stays, all of those kinds of things. I tried and I didn't really see a shift in looking back. A huge part of that was, again, the belief that this was just how my brain worked and how I functioned. And so it meant that I was going through the motions, but I didn't believe I was gonna get better. So I, I wasn't making any meaningful shifts. I wasn't personally invested in my progress and I didn't have enough self-compassion to want to get better and to want a life worth living for myself.And so halfway through my freshman year, my family, my parents and my treatment team really came to the conclusion that something had to shift. We had to get more support because things on an outpatient. Basis weren't shifting my emotions. Or my thoughts and behaviors. And I still wasn't having an open line of communication with anyone. I wasn't being a hundred percent honest and vulnerable and transparent about the emotions that I was experiencing. So I think it would've been one thing if I like fully had this open line of communication with a therapist, and every single day I was like, this is what my urges are. Like, this is what my thoughts are like. But that wasn't there. And so it was really difficult for anyone to really get a pulse on where I was at and, and what might be ahead in the next couple of months. So, I ended up going to a residential treatment program right outside of Boston, and it's a program that specializes in depression, anxiety, emotion regulation, family relationships, all that kind of stuff, um, for teenage girls. And it's an amazing program because it uses an evidence-based type of therapy called dialectical behavioral therapy. And I'm sure we'll touch on this when we get to more tangible ways you can improve your mental health, but it's been. It was originally developed for adults that are struggling with borderline personality disorder and suicidal ideation. So adults that are having like really extreme distress that is very resistant in a clinical setting. And so what I love about that origin story is that if you're struggling with less clinical or less severe depression or anxiety or conflict or self-esteem, when you are presented with D B T skills or doing D B T treatment, it's really tough to be like, this isn't gonna work because it was developed for a population that was struggling in such a big extreme way and it showed such promising and effective results. It's really amazing how many studies support this and so, That's what I love about D B T. And that was one thing that really did make a difference because like I mentioned, At the beginning of my treatment journey, I wasn't personally invested. There was no belief that things would shift.
And so when I got to this residential program, one of the first things they said to me during my intake meeting was, do you wanna be here? And I was like, no brainer. I do not wanna be here. I was like a 14 year old kid who was taking a medical leave of absence from high school and I was so depressed and anxious and at an all time low and all of these things.
Abbie: But that seems like one of the first times you were really honest about how you were really feeling. And that's a breakthrough right there.
Sadie: Yeah, exactly. And so they said, all right, great. We appreciate that. But that's not really how this program works, because they Said that every single girl that was there was there on a willing basis, which is something really unique and amazing in the adolescent treatment field. Because like I mentioned, there's this odd element of autonomy for adolescences, especially when it comes to mental health, because your parents are still making some decisions. So in the teen mental health world, you get these programs where maybe teens aren't always the ones spearheading their recovery, or they're not the ones making these decisions. And so that's one thing that Was a complete game changer about this program, was they were the ones that were like, you have to want to be here. And so, I for the first time, cultivated like a shred of self-compassion. It wasn't like, ugh, I want this life worth living. I want this recovery for myself. It was like maybe years from now down the line, at a parallel universe, I could maybe not be depressed. I suppose that's a possibility. Like that was the level of
Abbie: and they let you stay or they said,
Sadie: They let me stay. And so I said, they gave me the night to think about it. They were very clear that not all programs operated this way, that you know, a lot of them, you just signed on the dotted the line and you're good to go. And I was a little scared by that. I was like, I definitely want to be involved in this process. And so I thought about it and I developed that little bit of self-compassion. I. To have like the logical side of things, which was all of these studies supporting B T for depression and anxiety. And adolescents and suicidal ideation and how many teens they'd seen go through this program with exactly what I was struggling with.And then there was the emotional side of things where for the first time I was actually trusting my care providers and I was trusting my parents and I was being vulnerable about what I was experiencing and had a hope. That things would get better. And so those three things together really were what set me on a different trajectory. And so there was so much skills, education and medication management and learning routines and behaviors and working through like all the inner work. But it was really like those three shifts mentally that made a huge difference initially, in addition to everything that I learned during my time there. And I ended up being there for four months and saw huge shifts. I went in suicidally, depressed and anxious, and so overwhelmed. I had no relationship with my parents, and I left no longer suicidally depressed. I had anxiety still, but I knew how to cope with it and no longer was controlling every aspect of my life. And I had a foundation of a relationship with my parents, which is a teen is a game changer because your parents are like the portal to everything in life. You can't do anything without like having a good relationship there. And so, Made those shifts, went to another program to continue to maintain that progress. And then, uh, a year and a half into the, this treatment journey, realizing that I had recovered and become st stable and completely turned my life around, which I never thought was possible. I was like, I gotta tell people about this. I started recording she persisted and sharing my story and including the resource that I wish I had because I was so aware that I had access to so many amazing clinicians and programs and skills. And not every teen has access to that, or not every teen needs to completely uproot their life and go to treatment for a year and a half. And so I wanted to make those skills and insights more accessible and share them with teams so hopefully I could prevent some of the, the suffering that I experienced in others.
Abbie: Yeah. absolutely. Well, thank you so much for doing this work and your journey has not been easy. but I know that you're changing so many lives and impacting so many people and giving them the education, like the resources that they need to be able to discern, okay, what are these different types of treatments? Knowing where I'm at, what could, what could work for me. And I'm curious, comparing outpatient versus your residential experience, like how would someone be able to know like, Hmm, outpatient really isn't working for me. Like I think there's a difference this really isn't working for me, I need to be residential versus this is just a bump in the road. This is a hard time. I'm working triggering me, some very So it's in the process of working, but it's really hard versus it's not working. Like how do you discern them?
Sadie: It's definitely a difficult decision and one that a therapist or a psychiatrist always should weigh it on because they're the experts in this situation. I think residential and even inpatient is always a last resort. Like no mental health provider is gonna be like, let's start with a three week hospital. Stay. Like first up we're. We're pulling you outta school and you're going to residential for four months. Like no one is gonna do that as their, their step first, like stepping stone into the mental health world.
You'll probably start with maybe getting a referral from your, uh, pediatrician or your primary care doctor. Maybe you'll start meeting with a psychiatrist once a month. Maybe it's outpatient therapy every other week. And so you're never gonna just like, hopefully if you are, that's a red flag, get thrown into this really intense treatment world without trying things on an outpatient basis first, because you wanna d disrupt someone's life as little as possible.And there's so many reasons for that. But one is that when you're put into these residential settings, when you're not, when you don't need to, it becomes really hard to replicate the skills in your real life, which I think is something you talk about all the time. Like you want these skills to work in your real life, not just the context of like a perfect day or a once a month. You have all this time to invest in yourself. Like you want these skills to be applicable every day, no matter what's happening. And so, A great example is, uh, the therapeutic boarding school I went to in Montana. I was there for 14 months and it was like middle of nowhere, five minutes south of the Canadian border. Like with no connection with the outside world, which never phones. We talked to our family once a week like this was insane. Those, it's very difficult to then go home and like live with your family cuz you're like, I haven't talked to you guys at all. I've only spoken to you once a week for five minutes.So you see that kind of like disconnect between getting therapy and getting support in one environment and then transferring it to your real life. And so a lot of clinicians will do everything possible to keep you in your environment and so that you can learn and implement the skills there and they can be as effective as possible.So the, the rule of thumb is you start with like little interventions, slow and steady. You keep moving like up the, up the, like up the ladder if you will Of these different interventions. But for me, I did intensive outpatient, which is when you are going to therapy for like three hours a day every day for teens. It's after school. I did that twice through, and that means it was like for six weeks at a time, and that's like one of the most intensive outpatient options. I also did outpatient dialectical behavioral therapy, which is also multiple months. You're doing therapy twice a week in addition to skills education.I did that twice through, and so it was like years of trying at home and having four hospitalizations, two intensive outpatient programs. Two rounds of D B T A year of outpatient with a therapist. Like all of these things that we really, truly did try to exhaust our resources before we were like, things aren't working and you can't just keep trying the same thing and expecting something to be drastically different. And so when you're at the point where you've been doing things for years and you're not seeing a shift in your urges or you're. your ability to cope with your emotions or your relationships or the behaviors that you're using to cope, especially if they're maladaptive coping mechanisms, that's when you're like, okay, what else can we do here? And it definitely, if things are getting worse, that's another thing as well. Things were definitely getting worse for me. And so that's when you're like, okay, maybe we need to shift something. But uprooting your life is always a last resort, and that's something that you'll hear from, from clinicians all the time. Whenever there is anything mental health related where you're like, is stigma or like personal resistance getting involved here, you can always just check it with physical health. Like if you had a client come in and you told them like, yeah, we'd like you to eat more proteins, so actually you're gonna come live with me, I'm gonna watch you eat every meal. Like that would be an absurd intervention. Same thing for mental health. Like you would start with texting a couple times a day or even just they would try it independently first before getting further support. Same thing for mental health. We just like, whether it's stigma or strange beliefs, we've like cultivated ourselves. We just think of mental health differently for some reason. But if we check it against physical health, it can be really effective to make sure that we're approaching this in the right mindset and in the right way and not letting stigma get in the way.
Abbie: Absolutely. All right. I appreciate you explaining that too. And I'm sure the providers are also, like, the patient might not have that much self-awareness or like, are they getting better? are they getting worse? But the clinicians that are really trained in this, they're able to see, okay, we've been trying this, like now it's time to advance to the next level or try do another round
Sadie: Yeah. you also get to such a point of emotional exhaustion, and I think that's such a common theme with individuals that end up receiving higher care. So you're like, I just can't do this anymore. The, it's not like they're like, oh, I'm motivated. I got this. Let's do another round of this. I can keep doing outpatient therapy. You're like, this isn't working. And every day is. So difficult to navigate that I do not know how I can continue to go forward, whether it's continuing to invest in therapy. For me, that kind of presented a suicidal ideation. But for some people they're just like, I just can't keep trying to cope with anxiety. It's just so overwhelming. Like I don't have the emotional strength to try and do exposure therapy today. And so I think that's another thing as well, when you just have lost the, the motivation and energy in a really long-term way and you're, it's really difficult to implement those things more independently.
Abbie: And to what degree, now I know for more eating disorder treatment, they, you're younger, they want the parents involved, to be accountable for eating meals and to almost retrain the parents. How do we approach meal times? there's probably some stuff at home that has then manifested
Abbie: or eating disorders. So you mentioned that you learned new skills and, and were able to form a different relationship with your parents. How involved were they in your treatment, especially when you were in the residential program.
Sadie: This is what I loved. And what was a complete game changer was the parent involvement. So I was learning these skills day in and day out. And the way they structure this program is that every single weekend, and they tended to do it, I think it was like Mondays or maybe Sundays, is that the parents would also learn the skills. So all the parents of these girls would come together at a little skills group and they would all learn the same skills. So like one week I was learning validation and I was like, okay, if you're gonna validate yourself, like you tell yourself that all emotions are valid, and maybe it's not justified for the emotion to be this intense, but it's valid and this is what I'm experiencing. It's okay, I'm gonna make space for this, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then your parents that weekend are also learning validation. They're like, okay, my daughter is experiencing this intense emotion. This is what I'm gonna say and this is what I'm gonna do. And I have to remind myself that even though I wish she wasn't experiencing this, because it's really making my life difficult, it's valid and I'm gonna create space for it because this is the first step in getting this behavior to change.So you're working in tandem to both become more effective and like you mentioned, a lot of the time family members play a role in like the dysfunction and emotional overwhelm. Even if it's not the direct cause. Again, relationships are essential and parental validation and relationships really do have a big impact on mental health for teens. And like we mentioned, you want these. Therapeutic insights or or skills to transfer to when you're back home. So a big part of that is those family dynamics, and so the parents are learning these skills alongside the teen. Another thing that they did at the program was that you did like family visit. So every single weekend or every other weekend, my parents would come and visit and we would practice using our skills and being effective, and I would try and be vulnerable and tell them what I was experiencing. They would validate me and we started to slowly but surely build this relationship. And really heal this relationship that had been in such a struggling place because I blamed my parents for what I was experiencing. I really was of the mindset that, like you guys raised me, it's your values that I was raised with, like You guys. Gave me these certain thought processes, like, this must be your fault. Because again, there's that aspect of autonomy. So I was like, everything is your guys' fault. I have nothing to do with this, which was not accurate. We had to take some self accountability there. But yeah, so we really worked on that relationship and it was absolutely essential. I talked to them almost on a daily basis. We were doing family therapy. They were learning the skills. I was learning the skills. We were practicing them together. And so the parents are really, really really involved and that is what allows recovery to be really long-term because you have these two, a lot of the time, two other people in your life that know the skills that are keeping you accountable, that know what to look for, and you're also able to just improve that relationship, be able to have a more stable relationship in your life. It's a game changer as that was another difference between the residential program and the therapeutic boarding school, where the therapeutic boarding school still did try to implement family dynamics, but it was like, I talked to my parents. Once a week in family therapy and then after three months I earned a five minute call with them once a week.And so it's just like a drastic difference that then it becomes hard to like replicate that relationship at home. Because you talk to your parents more than five minutes once a week when you're living with them. And so big difference there. Um, and I think also a difference in, in how long lasting recovery is and how teens are able to transition home and, and cope effectively with that environment.
Abbie: Yeah. Oh, well I appreciate you explaining that too. And, with these, I mean, not to diagnose like everyone needs to go get a diagnosis by a training professional, but in your experience, Sadie, cause I know you've also interviewed on your podcast so many guests that are renowned in field. What are some warning signs? How are you able to discern when you are sad versus when are you really depressed? when are you just having a bad day or a bad season? or through a breakup. Like, how do you know that versus When When are you feeling anxious versus when do you have anxiety? What's that line?
Sadie: Yeah, so it's a really interesting thing and I tend to come at it from two different perspectives. The first is kind of like the criteria that you must meet for a diagnosis and the function of a diagnosis. There are so many different clinicians that are like, I hate the d s m. It's so stupid. Like it's not necessary. Um, and the d s M is like in, in the United States, how people get diagnosed. It's like the giant book of like every single mental illness and you have to meet certain criteria to be able to be diagnosed for things. Yeah. And it has some interesting functions. One is that it's for insurance. If you have a certain diagnosis, that's how they bill it. Like it has, you have to have the diagnosis. So your insurance is like, yep, they actually have this illness. We'll cover that. So that's one purpose, which anytime, I'm sure you relate to this as well, within the whole nutritionist and dietician world. It's like anytime insurance is involved, you're immediately like, okay, this is a lot of bureaucracy. Like we're, we're, we're getting a little bit further away from the actual problem and more just into like the politics of it. So that's one thing. Another is that it creates the, a system that allows, um, money to be allocated to research and different time and energy of various researchers, um, to be distributed. And so if there wasn't a category for anxiety, maybe there wouldn't be as much research occurring of about anxiety because you're not able to gather the data on how many people are experiencing anxiety, how many people feel this is impacting their daily lives. But because we have a name and a label for this and people can be definitively diagnosed, we know that a huge portion of the population struggles with this. So a lot of clinicians and researchers are gonna devote their time and energy to understanding this better. And finding treatments and figuring out how we can support people struggling with this because so many people are struggling with it versus like A super rare. Disease that 0.0001% of the population has, and every like billion people, like again, it, it allows you to understand how much of the population is impacted and how much energy should be devoted to addressing this problem. And then the third reason that the D s M is helpful is that you are able to be very clear on what treatments are effective because treatments are developed with these specific diagnoses in mind.
So if you're like, I have these five symptoms, okay, that's depression. This is the treatment I'm gonna direct because this is what research shows is effective. Whereas if you just had this like random assortment of things you were experiencing, but there wasn't a label for it, you might be just trying six different types of therapy and treatment.And one of them is actually for O C D, so of course it's not gonna work on depression. And one of them is for, I don't know, schizophrenia, so it's definitely not gonna work on depression. And so it allows you to get really clear on what treatments you should try so you have the best chance of recovery, um, and, and effectiveness and what you're So that's kind of the, the function of it. When I talk about diagnoses on the podcast, I really like what you said about how you can feel anxious versus having anxiety. And you can feel sad versus having depression. And like I mentioned at the beginning, that like not all teens or individuals may have this extreme diagnosis or this need for intensive but you might have things on a smaller scale And the skills can still be effective to implement. It's the same thing with sadness and anxiety and, and depression where if you are feeling anxiety, um, on a daily basis, so you are anxious, but you don't necessarily have the, the clinical level, um, that the D S M outlines. I almost would think of that.
Okay. Like, this is great. I can pull from these skills that are proven to be effective for this thing on a more serious scale. So it's more likely that they'll work for me. And it's more likely that I'll feel better because you're not experiencing it to that extreme degree. It's almost like an unpopular opinion because I feel like the way that we approach mental health is like, well, it's not bad enough, so I don't need therapy, or I don't need those skills, or I don't need those resources because I'm not at that point, like other people struggle more. And I really like to flip that and have it be the opposite. It's like, no, to be honest, like if you are struggling on a smaller scale, you have a better chance of re recovery. You have a better chance of these things working. And you're more likely to, to see that as being successful. And another really interesting statistic within the mental health world is that when you are experiencing more severe, say, depression or anxiety, you're more likely to get an extreme clinical intervention and therefore recovery much quicker.So if you wake up one day, this isn't gonna happen. This is. Extremely uncommon. But if you wake up one day, you are like comatose, depressed. You can't move, you can't think, you can't do anything. Pretty soon, hopefully people in your life will be like, we gotta do something about this. you need help. You need support. You're not able to function. You need serious assistance. Immediately, you'll get thrown into therapy. You'll get support from a psychiatrist. You'll learn the skills. You'll likely get the support you need to reach recovery rather quickly. But if you're experiencing depression on a very small scale that is impacting your life but isn't completely debilitating, it's tends to statistically take a lot longer for people to seek support.And access resources. And so it's almost a question of like, which is really more severe, someone that's struggling with depression for 10 years, but on a smaller scale. Or someone that was , severely depressed, but it only lasted six
Abbie: and they got the support and they
Sadie: It was different degrees, but it's a decade versus six months. So you just have to think about that and really kind of push back against those belief systems that we've established because of mental health stigma. And so, Yes, you may not be at the point where you have a diagnosis and it's not that severe, but honestly look at that as, okay, I have so many skills to now pull from that are more likely to work, and , I can still use, and I can still utilize
with regards to when you know that something's wrong.
The way that the DSM. Categorizes a lot of these disorders. We, we just talk, we talked about the D S m with like the reasons why, why we have these diagnoses, but the, one of the biggest things is that it's impacting your ability to function. And I think that's true in a lot of areas of life. Um, so many things that you talk about on the podcast are, are necessary when IT your ability to function, when it starts to impact your relationships and your ability to, I don't know, sleep or have daily habits or show up for work or all of these things that are important to us. And so it's the same thing for mental health. When we are impacted in our ability to show up for school, show up for class, show up for work, when we are impacted in our ability to pursue hobbies, when our physical health is impacted. Whether it's sleep, diet, exercise, all of these things. When you can, um, evaluate yourself and say, this is impacting my life and it's really impacting my ability to function. That is kind of when you cross over into that diagnosis criteria. And so it's interesting because it's a very subjective metric. Like someone could have the most negative belief system ever. They could have like the most depressing thoughts in their head 24 hours a day, but if for whatever reason it didn't impact their ability to function, you'd be like, well, they're not, they don't have depression. But if you put those thoughts in it, another person's head, they would be like, completely debilitated. They'd be like, I can't do anything. Like, my, my mood is at such a low, like, I'm not able to cope or move throughout the world. And so it's a, it's a very subjective thing. And I think that's another thing that People Struggle with when Yeah.
Abbie: know, cuz they'll say like, oh, it's not so bad you could just throw some dirt on it. You know, depending on your, your bandwidth for being able to handle certain things or your experience
Sadie: Yeah. And I think that's something that people struggle with and I've struggled with is it's like some people are just more, and I feel like sensitive has such a bad connotation, but some people are more emotionally sensitive. And so they're more likely to feel those like debilitating experiences when they're having a low mood or negative thought patterns or unhealthy belief systems. Whereas someone else,
it might not impact their functioning as much. And so again, we just have to put things in perspective and be like, if we think of the person who's depressed for six months, but it's really bad, or we think of the person who's mildly depressed, but it lasts for 10 years, which camp would you wanna be in? So if you can be like,
okay, well maybe it is better that I'm more affected by this because it means I can. Intervene quickly. I can get the skills that I need and I can pull myself out of this, and you can do what needs to be done rather than sitting in the back seat for 10 years and waiting for something to shift because it's quote unquote not that bad.
Abbie: And hopefully this inspires the, the, other camp, the people that are like may be more mildly depressed or mildly anxious that would be waiting 10 years hope maybe this episode, or listen to your, possible, inspire them, Hey, I actually have some autonomy here. I can use these skills now.
Sadie: If it's not that bad, all that means is it's a , more likelihood that these treatments will work. Because it's less severe. It's impacting your functioning to a lesser degree. So instead of being like, well it's not bad, so I don't need the help. Be Like, it's not that bad. So the help's gonna work. Great. Perfect. Love it. Let's move forward with our lives.
Abbie: Perfect. Well, okay, let's dive into some actual tangible tips, cause I know people love that on this show. Um, what would you recommend? I feel like there's kind of two Parts to this, and I talk about this, with the clients that I work with. I'm like, when you're having a bad day, or like, you know, I'll use a nutrition example. If you forget to meal prep and you're on the go and you just need to go to Chick-fil-A or something, what are you going to order there in moment? I'm like, I got this here a
Sadie: I'm so jealous.
Abbie: Oh my God, it's so good. So, how do you make that choice in the moment? Or if you just need to run into the gas station, what tools are you gonna use in that moment to make the best nutrition choice And also what can you do in your lifestyle to mitigate you needing to do that in an emergency situation so that you're. Doing things daily, like whether that's meal prepping or meal planning, packing your lunch the night before, Making stuff in bulk. I don't know exactly what it is, but it would be things in your lifestyle that are setting you up for success so that those emergency situations aren't happening, but also knowing we're human life happens, you need skills for those emergencies. Are you able to speak to those? Maybe stuff like we can start with in the moment, what are some things that you you're really low or going through something, and then also lifestyle. What are some shifts we
Sadie: Yeah, so in D B T or dialectical behavioral therapy, which is the treatment I talked about, which was so effective for me, which by the way, Selena Gomez loves C B T. She's done interviews on it before. She, uses
Sadie: Okay, We'll We'll do a little education. Okay, so cbt, sometimes they think of DBTs, like almost an iteration of C B T. The, the person that started D B T is like, it's not C B T, but you can kind of think of it as like an adaptation. Just like a lot more detailed and specialized. Also fun fact related to Selena Gomez, we went to the same mental hospital, so, she's my dream podcast interview because we both did D B T at the same mental hospital and sudden like, girl, just come on to
Abbie: manifesting this for you. Yes.
Sadie: wouldn't that be so cool? So this is a total tangent, but rare beauty, like one of their biggest initiatives is donating to McClean, which is the hospital that we both went to. So They do all these webinars where they educate you on all of these different things related to mental health. Those are funded by Rare Beauty. The Board of Rare Beauty, like their mental health initiatives are doctors from McLean. She won an award from McLean. It's a whole thing. obsessed. Anyways, back to DBT. Um, there's two different, there's a bunch of modules and the way that DBT is laid out is it's like a giant book of skills. And when we struggle, we tend to kind of become more and more ineffective with our ability to cope with things. And you kind of touched on this, like in your best functioning, you'll be meal prepping. The days where you're not doing as well, you're going through the Chick-fil-A drive-through. Same thing with mental health. Like your best days, you're pulling from your effective coping skills. The bad days, you're like watching Netflix for 10 hours that's not as effective. When we think about D B T, it's basically like a comprehensive guide of how to cope with life. And what's great about this is you're not in a therapy session, like one of those, like quintessential laying on the couch, staring at this healing. You're like, what do I do? And the therapist is like, what do you think you should do? That was my biggest pet peeve. I hated it when
Abbie: it's like I'm asking you, sir.
Sadie: Yes. That's why I'm here. I don't know the answer. And so D B T never does that. Of course, sometimes your therapist will push you to like look inwards and they'll be like, you know the answer. You're just looking for someone to tell you and you're like, fine. Yeah, you're right. But for the most part, it's really detailed, it's really comprehensive. And so it's like you feel anxiety. This is the skill you're using, you feel depressed. This is what you're doing. You need to advocate for yourself. This is what we're gonna So that's what I loved about it was there was no question mark up in the air. It was like, I'm experiencing this extreme distress. This is exactly how I'm gonna cope with that. And so this giant book is broken down into d different modules. And so it's emotion regulation, distress tolerance, mindfulness and interpersonal effectiveness. So interpersonal effectiveness, relationships, and mindfulness is a lot of like more present moment meditation based things. The person that created DBT, she actually, , trained in a ton of different like Buddhist philosophies. And so there's so much of that woven in there because the core of DBT is you're accepting your current experience but also working to change your reality. So there's this idea of dialectics or dialectical behavioral therapy is this idea that two things can be true on this at the same time. So acceptance and change. And you can be trying your best and you can still do better. And so, so many things in D B T come back to this idea of a dialectic, but that's kind of. Mindfulness modules, like those more philosophical things in ways, you're shifting your thinking and seeing the world. And then the other two modules are what you're touching on. Distress tolerance is like in the moment, crisis and emotional regulation. Is long-term improving your mental health. With distress tolerance, there's a ton of skills. There's so many different things in this module and it's really dependent on what you're experiencing. But to give some like broad strokes examples, like distraction as a distress tolerance skill, you're using this in crisis mode.
But as we know, if we distracted 24 hours a day, like for me, I love the office. It's a great distraction when I'm like stressed out. But if I watched the office 24 hours a day, seven days a week, a, it wouldn't become a distraction. And B, it would lose its effectiveness really quickly. And so distraction's a skill in the distress tolerance module, there's a skill called Stop. There's a lot of acronyms in D B T. And so stop san for stop. Take a step back, observe and proceed mindfully. So anytime you're experiencing a Super intense emotion. You're physically and mentally pausing. You're removing yourself from the situation. This is key, especially in a conflict. You're observing like your thoughts, your emotions, what the other person's doing. How did you get to this point of emotional reactivity, and then you're proceeding effectively. So you're really just like taking a moment and coming up with a plan to cope better. Another skill that I love from the distress tolerance module is the tip skill. This is, again, there's a lot of misspelled acronyms in D B T, so it's T I P P, and what you're doing is you are adjusting your physiological distress associated with emotional reactivity. So when we're anxious, we hold like a lot of tensions. Sometimes we're shaking, we're fidgeting a lot, our mind is going crazy. Maybe you're like sweating. Like all of these sensations that come with intense anxiety with anger, like your fists are really clenched, your muscles are really tight. There's a lot of physical sensations that come with being emotional and two of the biggest things are your heart rate and your breathing rate.Like those will increase when you are experiencing an intense emotion. So with the tip skill, you are working to decrease that. So then you are less overwhelmed by the physical aspect and you can then mentally be like, okay, how am I going to proceed? So, Tip stands for temperature intense exercise, pace breathing, pared muscle relaxation. So the temperature component I, you're gonna like this cuz a little biology. But, um, what you're doing is you're activating your, um, mammalian diving reflex. So we know our vagus nerve runs through our body. One of the places it runs is underneath your eyes, and so you're gonna submerge your face in a bowl of water. This is not an on the go skill, but you can like, adjust and do like little ice packs, those ones that you pop. Or you can do water under your eyes the paper towel. but Especially if you're at home. This is perfect And people are doing this on TikTok now for like the hangover anxiety and de-puffing benefits. But
Abbie: Yeah. Let's just not go out and binge drink all weekend. There's, that's also a, another, another thought, another thought.
Sadie: So you're submerging your face in a bowl of ice water, and you're taking deep breaths like between that. After you take your face out and as it stimulates your vagus nerve, your body thinks that you're diving into cold water. And so to prevent yourself from drowning, your body's gonna decrease your heart rate because in excess of carbon dioxide is what happens when you drown. So your body's like, okay, I gotta stop producing carbon dioxide. I gotta slow my heart rate down. I gotta slow my breathing rate down because I'm apparently diving in the arctic waters right now.But your face is just in a bowl of water. So your heart rate goes down your. Your breathing rate goes down, and any time you do this, it will work. It's not like, oh, I hope if I take a deep breath, I hope if I count things around the room that I'll calm down. Anytime you submerge your face in a bowl of water, your heart rate, and your breathing rate will decrease. And that symptom of anxiety will subside. So that's the temperature and tends exercise is the idea that like your body can't maintain extreme output physically for a long period of time. So if you do sprints or if you are doing your, your, this is more your thing of like really intense cardio exercise, but like sprints, jump squats, burpees, anything really, really, really intense for a short period of time, your body will raise its heart rate past the threshold that it was at when you're anxious, depressed, angry, and then lower it back down as part of its normal, like bodily processes below that threshold. And so you again, are mitigating that, that physiological response. It's also a great way to like get that emotion out
Abbie: and I think the key there is that it's short duration. Like I don't want people thinking, oh, I need to go do Barry's bootcamp three times a day, or sign up for Orange Theory and go five times A week. Like, yeah, 60 seconds people.
Sadie: Yeah. Oh my God. Can you imagine? That's the takeaway. Everyone's like, Barry bootcamp six times a day. That's my coping skill. No. Like, really short term. Um, like run up and down the stairs, then you're good, you're done, you move on. You use another skill.
Um, But yeah. And then the pace breathing, impaired muscle relaxation is similar. Like you are pacing your breathing to slow down your breathing rate, slow down your heart rate, and with , with paired muscle relaxation, as you inhale, you're clenching your muscles. And then as you exhale, you're releasing that tension. And some of that like stress that you're holding physically, whether you're angry or anxious, is also dissipating. So that's the tip skill. And there are so many other skills than distress tolerance module, but those are three you can pull from.Which is distraction. You can use, um, the stop scale to really evaluate how you can proceed more effectively. And then the tip skill to help mitigate that physiological overwhelm. And then the emotion regulation skills are more long-term things that you're using to maintain your mental health and improve your ability to cope with emotion. So things like your police skills, which is all about improving your physical health, that you can reduce your emotional vulnerability because when we're hangry, we are more likely to experience intense emotions. When we are not ever exercising, we're more susceptible to low mood. And so the police skill, it's a really bad acronym. Like, I'm gonna say these words and you're like, that does not match up to those letters, but we're, we're pretending. So it's physical illness. You're taking care of your physical health, you're going to the doctor, you're taking your medications as you need to. Um, you're being more kind of gentle with yourself when you are sick because if we through our, we're gonna really quickly get emotionally expended. Um, so physical health, Exercise balanced, sleep balanced, eat balanced, and avoid mood altering substances. I forgot the A in there. And so that one especially, it's really like a mindfulness thing you're being aware of, like what substances are doing to your body. So like a great example is caffeine. Caffeine can make you really anxious. Not everyone, but for some people. So if you're just aware, like when I drink three cups of coffee, I will have a panic attacks. we're gonna stick to two and be mindful of that.
Abbie: And alcohol, right? Alcohol, is a downer as well. And that can also interact with several medications. Yeah. So
Sadie: So it's.
Sadie: Yeah, decreasing that, that emotional vulnerabilities that you can be at your best mentally. And then some other skills in the um, emotion regulation. Module one is the A b ABC skill. So accumulating positives, building mastery, coping ahead, accumulating positives. You're planning moments of joy. So maybe every morning you're like, I am going to have my favorite cup of coffee I'm gonna make, for me, it's like an ice spill latte. Every morning I'm gonna have that. I'm gonna plan it. I'm gonna enjoy that. I'm gonna savor that moment. Maybe it's journaling. Maybe it is seeing a friend. Maybe it's watching your favorite TV show every week when it comes on, you are planning these moments. They're not happening spontaneously. And then when you get to a lower point, you can't drop into that mindset where you're like, Everything sucks. I have nothing going for me. You can say no because I've accumulated all of these amazing, wonderful moments that make my life worth living. And it also just helps to increase like your emotional variability. The more that you're planning these moments of joy, the less distance and, and almost like shocking.
Sadie: , like emotional whiplash. There is between like these really low depressed, anxious, angry moments and these like highs where you're like, life is great. And so by doing more positive things, you're able to kind of decrease that distance between the two, and then building mastery is you are getting better at d something, whether it is, like, for me, I love doing my nails. I'm really into, like at home
Abbie: are so good at that.
Sadie: I love them. I'm my little nail drill, it's a whole thing. So like I get better at that skill not only improves my self-esteem, it's a great way to like distract myself. It's a great way to get better at a skill over time and improve my sense of competency. Um, I feel like a lot of the. Thoughts and experiences emotionally that get tied to depression are around, like, I don't have a purpose. Like what am I doing with life? And so when you have these things that you're getting better at, that you are working towards, that you are improving upon, it can help with those thoughts and feelings. So like the nails is an example, school work is a great example. You're constantly working towards a, a longer goal, maybe it's fitness based, like you're working towards, I don't know, running a certain amount of time. Or you're trying to. Improve a certain habit. All of these things are great examples, and again, improves your, um, your self-esteem, your sense of competency. Um, and also just like your, your general identity, that's a huge part of mental health is your sense of identity. So building mastery helps with that. And then the
last part of the
ABC skills, coping ahead. So this is the idea that before an intense situation, maybe you're giving a presentation, maybe you have like a really stressful, insane day coming up where you have no breaks, you're mentally gonna walk through that day and plan what coping skills you would use. So if you're giving a presentation, you're like, I know I'm gonna get anxious, so I'm gonna see if maybe I could like get ahead of the curve and ask my teacher if I could go first so that I'm not sitting there all class, like in my head, dreading the presentation, waiting until the last moment possible. And then you're like, okay, as I am walking to the front of the room, I'm gonna do my deep breathing and then I'm gonna take a minute to center myself before I start speaking. And if I get anxious, I'm gonna take a moment, I'm gonna take a deep breath, I'm gonna focus on these five things in the room. I'm gonna tell myself that even if I fail this presentation, it is not gonna matter in the grands scheme of life because the world will keep spinning. Things will continue to go on as they always do. Um, so all these skills and how you would talk to yourself, what thoughts you are gonna say in like more positive nature rather than just really being down on yourself, what skills you're gonna implement, um, and then. Just really walking through the situation. So when you do go through that process, you're like, I know what to do thought about this. I planned, I know what coping skills are gonna help me in this situation. And it's not left up to, well, I hope I can remember my coping skills when I'm like having an anxiety attack at the front of the classroom.
Abbie: Absolutely. And I think from a nutrition standpoint, people are like, well, I'll, I'll figure out what to like, but that causes
Sadie: plan ahead. Yeah,
Abbie: exactly. Exactly. Now speaking of like seeing five things in a room, what are some other, in the moment things that people could do? I know taking a deep belly breath, is it an obvious one, but it's very effective. I think people overlook that. Um, naming five things getting in touch with your senses, like what other things do you recommend for in the moment?
Sadie: I, there are so many little things. I'm a big fan when it's a really intense emotion. Like, put your headphones on, turn the music up really loud, give yourself a song, and really just like, feel the emotion. That's a big one. Um, I love a good complaining moment, especially when it's more like, I don't know, like shame or guilt or anger. Like, give yourself a minute to really complain, really get it all out. Because when we just avoid expressing those emotions, they come back in a bicker and more overwhelming way. Um, breathing is huge. Again, you are able to lower your heart rate. You're lowering, you're lowering your body's physiological response. You're telling yourself, okay, it's okay. I'm not in crisis mode.I don't need to fight or flight. Like things will be all right. Um, self-validation is huge. Like giving yourself an internal pep talk and telling yourself like, it's okay, like what I'm experiencing. Totally makes sense given the situation, and it's really tough to navigate this right now. This is how I'm gonna experience this, like walk yourself through it and really emphasize that the emotions are valid and acceptable and not, , a weakness on your part or not something you shouldn't be experiencing. I like the five things around you. Drinking water, especially cold water, and those like really almost startling physiological things, whether it's like cold water or hot tea, um, holding an ice pack. Anything that you can do to get yourself out of your head. Distraction is always a great one in the moment. Maybe you're watching a TV show. Um, physical movement is great if you can walk around and like briefly get out of the situation and really just get out of your own head. I, I'm a really big fan of sleeping it off. This is not something that was possible at the beginning of my mental health journey because every single day I was waking up extremely depressed and anxious, so it didn't matter if I went sleep would be the same tomorrow. But when you get your mental health to a more stable place, it's like you take a nap. The world would be a new place when you wake up. You go to bed, you do your night routine, tomorrow's a new day. And so that's a really great thing, especially if it's like conflict related. Um, or stress related. You kind of just have a new lease on life. If you can get those physical needs. met, like a good night of sleep. ,
Abbie: Yeah. Self-care, having a routine. Y'all go to episode seven for the main character morning routine episode. Like need those anchors in your day and regardless of what happens in your day,
Sadie: Those can be your plan to accumulate positives and they are good given every single day. So if you have like seven steps to your morning routine, seven steps to your night routine. I have a lot of steps in both of mine, which is why I'm saying sevens for like seven. I do
Abbie: you don't You don't, need that many if you don't want that But to each their own, you know, you could have two things. Whatever works for you. Yeah,
Sadie: exactly. So it's like a guaranteed Number of positive moments every single day, regardless of again, what happens in between.
Abbie: I love that. I love that. Now, just to quickly speak on distraction, cuz I think that can also be a slippery slope for people where people are using that as a crutchto, um, numb out when they distract themselves or procrastinate. So when is distraction healthy and a good coping skill and when is it
Sadie: Yeah. So a good rule of thumb is that if we think of our like emotional arousal, on a scale of one to 10, if a one is like you've just woken up in the morning, you're so calm, nothing has happened at all, and a 10 is like you are having a panic attack. Like you are the most anxious you've ever been in your entire life. We wanna use distraction seven to 10. It's like the, the amount that we wanna use it, ideally like eight to 10. But if you're using it when you're at a three and you're pulling from that six times a day, it's again going to lose its effectiveness and you're avoiding. And the thing about anxiety especially is that avoidance amplifies anxiety. The only way to make anxiety go away is to expose yourself to what's making you anxious and small, healthy increments and really master your ability to cope with the thing that's making you anxious. And so for social anxiety, you're gonna slowly but surely like. Order your cup of coffee rather than like placing the order on the mobile app. Then you, maybe you'll start a conversation in line, then maybe you'll like ask for someone's number. You don't have to call them, but you have to like do the process of like having that interaction. So it's, you're like, you're building up to that. You're exposing yourself to the thing that makes you anxious, and then as you have mastered your ability to cope with that, that emotion, all of a sudden you're not anxious about those social interactions. And so, We have to remember that avoidance amplifies anxiety and any emotion when we avoid anything. It's going to come back in a stronger, more overwhelming way. And distraction is a form of avoidance. It's a great skill. It'll get you through that crisis mode. But once your emotional reactivity goes back to what it normally is and you're back to that stable state, you have to use other skills.To really feel the emotion, work through it, process it, and truly cope with it rather than just kind of pushing it away, , temporarily.
Abbie: Yes. Absolutely. Okay. Thank you for that distinction. I think that'll be really helpful for people. I
Sadie: why it's a distress tolerant skill and not an emotion regulation skill. Cause we're using it to tolerate distress. We're not using it to regulate our emotions because it can't be used long term or it won't beeffective.
Abbie: Mm, a hundred percent. A hundred percent. Oh, you have just given us so much valuable information. I am just so impressed by you. You are so knowledgeable. You just know y'all, she's got no notes is she's just spitting facts right now and she just knows the sets tip of her tongue. Like I,
Sadie: try it.
Abbie: I'm so impressed. Like you really know what you're talking about and you're really changing lives. So thank you for being here. Is there anything that you wanna promote? Obviously your podcast, but anything else that you wanna promote before we dive into , my last
Sadie: Yeah. All the things are at She Persisted podcast. The website is she persisted podcast.com. You can listen to Sheep Persisted wherever, and there's a lot of D B T episodes and interviews and a lot of the social media content is very like coping skill, education based. So all of those things, if you wanna see in your feed, follow along.
Abbie: Awesome. Awesome. Love it. Well, thank you so much, Sadie. My last question for you is, what is one thing you're gonna do this week to make your week better?
Sadie: Oh my gosh. This week I have really, like, what sets me up for success is really planning on Sundays. And like making sure everything is written in my planner and I know what to expect and I like will plan. Okay. Like, these are the days I could go to the gym and these are the days that I need an nap. These are the days that I'm going to hang out with my friends and unplugged from homework. And so if I really do write down everything that has to be done, I save myself so much stress throughout the week with being what's happening, what do things do? like, I don't even know what I'm supposed to be doing right now. So Planning out, making sure I know exactly what to expect, exactly what is expected of me, um, and making sure that I am setting in that way.
Abbie: Yay. I love it. Well, if you fail to plan, then you plan to fail. Right,
Sadie: Exactly, Exactly. And I'm a big planner. I have my Apple calendar, I have my Asana, and I have a bolt journal, so I'm a big proponent of the planning.
Abbie: Yeah. Anyone with a bullet journal? I'm like, You are serious. You're taking your
Sadie: another building Mastery is the bullet journal. It's not only like great for tracking things and I've used it in therapy for years, but you get better at it every single month. You're doing the same thing. You're improving the skill.
Abbie: I love that. Well, thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge, all of your tips. Really appreciate you being here.
Sadie: Of course.
Sadie: Yay. Bye.